Friday, February 17, 2006

As man is, god once was...

Once upon a time there was a man that lived on a planet called “Kolob”, not so very far away. It came to pass that this man lived a good life and became a god; he came to another little planet called “earth” with his wife that he had married on his home planet.. In their exalted states, this god and his wife gave birth to “spirit children”; the first-born was Jesus – later would come Lucifer, along with many other "spirit children".

The “father-god” was concerned about the future salvation of humans on this new planet and he had a planned. One of his sons (Jesus) agreed with the plan. The other son (Lucifer) did not agree and rebelled, convincing a large number of (pre-human) spirit-children in heaven to side with him. As punishment, the father-god cast Lucifer out of heaven and made Lucifer’s followers into demons, who could never, ever be born as humans(1). Another large number (although not the remaining) of spirit-children sided with Jesus and would be blest to be born as Caucasians. The remaining spirit-children (who had not taken sides) would be born in the line of Cain, as non-Caucasians (black people).

These spirit children remained in heaven, to be born as humans – their race and location depend on the choices that they made in heaven in this great spiritual battle.

Some of these people moved to a place far across the ocean. A group of people from a place called Babel settled in what we now know as Central America(2). Another group, called “Jews” also came to this new place(3). A man named Nephi led these Jews. They divided into two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites who fought each other. The Nephites were defeated in 428 A.D. The Lamanites continued and are now known as the American Indians.

The father-god’s plan of salvation included the spirit-child, Jesus. In order for the father-god’s plan to work, Jesus needed a body. So the father-god used a girl named Mary, in a process that is as natural as our own birth(4), to give birth to Jesus.

Jesus was born, got married (to three women: Mary, Martha and Mary Magdelene) and had children. At the end of his life, Jesus began to atone for the sin of man (but not personal sins) in a garden(5). After he began the work in the garden, he finished his work on a cross. After Jesus died on the cross, he arose from the dead after three days. During the time between his death and resurrection, Jesus’ spirit was in the spirit world, where the souls of the dead wait for their own resurrection, to be reunited with their bodies. There, he ministered to the “righteous spirits, training them to teach other (sinful or ignorant) spirits – extending his ministry on earth into the spirit world.

After Jesus was resurrected, he went to minister to the Nephites in America. He appeared before a congregation in their temple, and allowed them to feel the wounds in his hands and feet, staying with them for several days, teaching and healing.

For 1800 years, this father-god was quiet. Then(6) the father-god(7) appeared to a boy(8) and revealed to him that religion, as he knew it, was wrong – all of it. Teachers, churches, creeds and beliefs were all abominations. The angel told the boy that he had been chosen to translate a very special book that was written on tablets of gold. Four years9 later an angel(10) appeared and told the boy to begin the work of translation. As the boy translated, a prophet(11) appeared to him and ordained him to restore the “true church”

The story on these tablets was amazing. The story (as related by this boy) was the account of ancient people who came to the Americas, people from Babel and Jews who were fleeing persecution in Jerusalem. According to the boy (now a man), his translation of this book is more doctrinally correct than the Bible(12). He even boasted that he did more than Jesus to keep his church together(13)!

The boy (now a man) published this book(14) and started the one “true” religion – a religion that was so outside of orthodox Christianity that the church was driven from town to town. As the religion grew, so did its doctrine.

Just like the “father-god”, all humans have the potential for becoming god, with their own planets (like earth). One of the father-god’s prophets(15) said, “As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." When this prophet said, “man…”, he meant exactly that. Women cannot be saved unless they are married to a “priest(16)” in this new religion.
Another teaching of this new religion was that the spirit-children in heaven could only be exalted (with the possibility of becoming a god themselves) if they were born into human bodies and that a man’s glory in heaven depended on the number of babies he had fathered. This meant that adherents of this religion must have as many babies as possible. In order to do this, polygamy was essential. This effectively reduced women to mere commodities. One follower of this religion said, "I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow17."

People, this is Mormonism. While the teaching may have “evolved”, this is what Mormon prophets teach and have taught.

For the Mormons that “don’t believe” all this – why are they still Mormons, if they don’t believe the foundational teaching?

And if Joseph Smith was not right, how is he a prophet of truth?

Bullet points:
  • Mormon doctrine denies the eternal nature of God (the father-god was a created man who became a god)

  • Mormon doctrine denies the Trinity )"That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)

  • Mormon doctrine denies the virgin birth (the father-god had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus)

  • Mormon doctrine teaches that Christ was in a plural marriage

  • Mormon doctrine teaches that Mormonism is the only true way to heaven (“If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.)

  • Mormon doctrine teaches that all men have the potential to become gods

  • And it follows that Mormon doctrine denies monotheism (as there are as many gods as there are men who have become gods)

  • Mormon doctrine states that there is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.)

  1. In one version, there were three different choices that these spirit-children could take. They could follow Lucifer (these would become demons), they could follow Jesus (these would become Caucasians) or they could choose to make no choice (these would become non-Caucasian races).

  2. These were the Jaredites, who settled in central America but perished because of their own immorality

  3. The Book of Mormon is the account of the Nephite leader, Mormon, concerning their culture, civilization, and appearance of Jesus to the Americas.

  4. In short, the father-god had physical sex with Mary

  5. The Garden of Gethsemane

  6. September 21, 1823

  7. Or maybe an angel, or three angels, depending on what version you’re reading

  8. The boy was Joseph Smith

  9. September 22, 1827

  10. The angel Moroni

  11. The prophet that allegedly appeared to Joseph Smith as John the Baptist

  12. History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 461

  13. History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 408-409

  14. The Book of Mormon

  15. President Lorenzo Snow

  16. All Mormon men are ordained as members of the "priesthood," with the absolute authority to preach the gospel, bestow blessings, prophecy, perform healings and baptisms, and generally speak for God.

  17. Heber C. Kimball


syrupyames said...

Wow, you seem to have researched it out well. But I have a few points to add from a real mormon. I respect your views, and I know that it is well known that mormons like to push their views on others, and I am not going to deny that this doesn't go on, but I do have some stuff to clarify in your thing.
1. I have never heard of this thing that God lived on Kolob, yes we do believe that the place where God resides is near unto Kolob, but it never says anywhere that he lived on Kolob
2. It is not part of doctrine that he came to earth to have his spirt children.
3. God did not turn the followers of Lucifer into anything. He cast them out. They stayed in the same form that they were spiritually born into, with no opportunities to advance their form.
4.2/3 of Heavenly Fathers children sided with Jesus, 1/3 sided with Satan (lucifer)Eveyone took a side, there was not a spirit that was neutral
5. All of the 2/3 that sided with Jesus get to be born into a physical human body. The people that were on Jesus's side are born into all body types, colors, sizes. Caucasians are not any more special than the English, Blacks, hispanics or such. All people that are on the earth chose the side of Jesus.
6. The plan that satan had was that he would force people to do stuff. They wouldn't have their free agency, It was obvious that if people had their free agency on earth that some would fall short of complete salvation, and satan wanted to forve everyone to "get" salvation, for lack of a better word. Jesus and Heavenly father wanted the spirit children in their bodily forms to be able to do what they wanted, because essentially this life is a test.
6.5 God did not have physical sex with mary, he is able to do miracles, and this miracle did not involve physical sex, it was a spiritual thing.
7.It is not docrinally supported that Jesus was married to anyone, and never anywhere does it even allude to the fact that Jesus was married to 3 women. Some people think that Jesus might have been married to Mary Magdalene, but it is never stated anywhere that he was, and it is not taught to us that he was married at all. There is certainly no evidence that he had children.
8.Jesus was perfect, he commited no sins during his lifetime.
9.The time when Heavenly father was quiet was because there was no one who had his authority on earth. I am sure that he still spoke to people but through feelings and such. Did you know that the apostles were the only people that had the authority of God to act upon the earth in his name, and the apostles did not give this authority to anyone else. It was in fact the King at the time that allowed the Pope to act in the name of God.
10.God did not say that all of the religions were totally wrong. When God says to Joseph that "must join none of them, for they were all wrong"(Joseph smith history verse 19) that did not mean that all of it was wrong, it meant that all of the churches were not correct. We believe and are taught that none of the churches contained the fullness of the gospel, meaning that they had parts of the truth, each of them having some of the truths, but none of them containing all of the truths.
11. I believe the correct wording that you are quoting from about Smith doing more than jesus was missinterpreted. It says he has done more SAVE Jesus, meaning he has done more than anyone EXCEPT Jesus in the Church, and this was not Joseph Smith who said this, but I think that it was Brigham Young that said this.
12.Your statement "As the church grew, so did its doctrine" is basically true, but you say it in a way that makes it so that it seems that we just added things randomly. But, when the church was first formed, the leaders had to learn the principles little at a time so that they would understand and be able to teach it to others effectively. This means that God didn't think that they were ready or that they would understand it all right away with out the basic principles learned, so he continued to reveal the doctrine in his own due time, when he thought that they were ready for it.
13. Just like in the Bible, all things said as "man" apply to both men and women, women can be saved just as well as men can. They do not need to be married to go to heaven.
14. "a mans glory in heaven depended on the number of babies he had fathered" now this is just laughable. Yes we do believe in large families, but nothing is dependent upon how many children you have. The reason that we want large families is so that more children have the opportunity to learn the gospel. "salvation is dependent on fathering babies" ha ha
14.Polygamy was put into place because when the pioneers crossed the praries many men died, and women had no husbands, no real skills to rely on, and lots of children, so they needed to be able to support them selves, it was a big responisbility for the men who took on other wives, they did not necissarily do it because they wanted to. They were asked by officials of the church to do it, and it took lots of prayer and soul searching. We did not practice polygamy after it was illegal, except for the people who already had more than one wife, what were they supposed to do, just abandon them on the side streets and hope for the best. No these men had to go into hiding to support the people that they loved, most went to mexico so they could keep their loved ones with them not against the law. The church does not ask people to disobey the law. It is against church policy, anyone who practices polygamy now is in direct contradiction with the statutes of our doctrines.
15.And no I don't believe "all this" because you researched but you don't know what mormonism is about, you don't know all the facts and drew misshapen opinions on what was fact.

There is one last thing that I want to say. God knows everything, and someday we will know everything, all his reasoning, and knowledge about why things had to happen the way that they did, or why things are they way they are. Since we don't know everything we have to rely on faith from what He does tell us. Even if he were to tell us everything we could not comprehend it all it would probably blow our minds up (take into account that that is not doctrine about blowing our minds up)

This is not intended to sway you towards my beliefs, it is just for the purpose of clarifying what we believe so that people don't believe outrageous things about our religion that have no doctrinal truth.

Anonymous said...

Here's the problem...

whatever the "official" doctrine is today, your prophets in the past have taught these things.

The Mormon church has not (to my knowledge) renounced these teachings.

syrupyames said...

You have not given enough evidence in your post to say that our prophets taught these things that you claim that they taught. Stories can be distorted, or even made up. You don't have any proof of most of these teachings. I will admit that we do believe some of these things and that some of them have a basis of fact, but the end result is false. Prove the fact with direct quotes coming from credible sources, interpreted in the way that the leaders of the church meant for them to be interpreted. We do not take anything as gospel except from those who hold the power to speak for the church. Sometimes people in our church try to teach things that are contrary to the gospel, but it is just that, it is contrary to the gospel, not spoken with the power of revelation. Maybe you are confusing some of the LDS prophets with that of the RLDS church or as they are now known as the Community of Christ

Anonymous said...

The sources are at the bottom.

Anonymous said...

A lot of questions on my mind. If god was a man who lived a good life n became god and all men can become gods, can the men turned gods marry and have their own spirit children and move to a different planet to create what the father god has done with earth?
Where exactly is planet kolob?